Academic THANG Leng Leng harboured a teenage infatuation with all-things Japanese and spent most of her professional career researching Japanese society. Her interests in Japan are diverse and she is acknowledged globally as an authority on ageing, its challenges, and its impact on society.
Thang 汤 is not a common surname in Singapore. Can you tell me a bit about your ancestry?
The Chinese character for 汤 is the same as soup. My father came from Jiaoling County 蕉岭县 in Guangdong Province and our dialect is Hakka. Although I am a Khek, I cannot speak it.
My family is a little bit unusual. My great-grandfather came to Nanyang in early 1900s and lived in Singapore and Penang. I was told that at one point, he was editor of Sing Pin Jit Poh 星槟日报 in Penang. He was what we called 读书人 (an educated man).
Subsequently, my grandfather joined his dad in Penang and studied at St Xavier’s Institution.
So where was your father born?
During the war, both of them went back to China and my grandfather got married and my grandmother gave birth to my dad.
My grandpa returned to Nanyang in the 1930s – back to Singapore and worked as a court translator before joining the Bank of China. His wife did not follow him and from what we heard, she remarried.
My father came to Singapore on his own when he was about 14 years old.
Because he did not understand English, he started school many levels below students who were of the same age as him. At 14, he joined 应新学校（Yin Xin School）established by the Hakka 应和会馆（Ying Fo Fui Kun) and was placed in a primary three class.
He caught up with his classmates and was eventually admitted to RI (Raffles Institution). But to many of his friends, he was still a Chinaman.
Like my grandfather, my dad also joined the Bank of China. He enrolled in a part-time accountancy course at Singapore Polytechnic while at the bank. It took him five years to complete the course and by then, he was the only student in his class.
After graduation, he did a stint at the income tax office before joining Intraco, where he later became the GM (General Manager). He left Intraco after 21 years and joined Representations International, where he stayed for the rest of his working career.
My dad believed it was good to know both Chinese and English, so all of us were sent to Chinese primary schools.
"My father came to Singapore on his own when he was about 14 years old."
I assume that by ‘we’, you mean you and your siblings. How many of you are there?
I am the eldest and I have a sister and a brother.
My sister and I went to the primary school of Nan Chiau Girls’ High School, one of the five Chinese-medium schools run by Singapore Hokkien Huay Kuan at that time. Nan Chiau became co-ed in 1984.
I went to SCGS (Singapore Chinese Girls’ School) for my secondary school education and my sister went to MGS (Methodist Girls’ School).
My brother went to Catholic High School (Primary) and then Bartley Secondary School.
How much younger is your brother?
My brother is seven years younger.
Early this year, he suffered a stroke in the brain. I really worried for him and his family.
Life is very unpredictable.
How about your sister?
She is four years younger.
After MGS, she went to a polytechnic, before pursuing her business degree in the UK.
Her husband is Spanish and they live in Singapore with their two children. She is a housewife.
Tell me about your mom.
My mom was born in Singapore but her dad came from 金门 (Kinmen) and her mom was a Peranakan from Pahang, Malaysia.
There are five girls and three boys in her family and my mom is the second eldest.
Mom went to Fairfield Girls’ School at Neil Road (now Fairfield Methodist Primary School and Fairfield Methodist Secondary School on Dover Road) After secondary school, she worked in CK Tang Department Store (now Tangs) and quit only after my brother was about four or five.
"My father loved photography and through that, he got to know my auntie first, and then my mother."
How did your parents meet?
My father loved photography and through that, he got to know my auntie first, and then my mother.
My mom said they met at a picnic, and probably before she started working, but she doesn’t quite remember. She also can’t remember how long they were together before they got married.
Mom was 24 when she married my dad. He was 28.
Where was your childhood home?
I was born in a flat in Clarence Lane, off Tanglin Road and opposite the then Thye Hong Biscuit and Confectionery Factory.
Subsequently we moved to a new flat in Henderson Crescent.
We lived there until I was in the second year of JC (junior college), when we moved to a town house in MacPherson Green, which was opposite the old Shin Min Daily News office. My parents lived there until the house was sold in an en bloc exercise in 2011.
I lived there until I got married in 1990.
Tell me more about Nan Chiau.
Nan Chiau, at that time, was quite unusual.
Back then, if you were born between 1 January and end of June, you could join the 年中班 (mid-year class) which started school in June.
I still don’t know why such an arrangement existed but three classes in Nan Chiau started in the middle of the year instead of the beginning of the year.
That’s interesting. Was it because there were not enough facilities and teachers so they had to spread everyone out?
Maybe there were too many kids as the birth rate then was quite high. Perhaps they had to make sure there were enough places for everyone.
About the move from a Chinese primary school to SCGS. Whose decision was it?
I suppose my form teacher, who also taught us English, must have had some influence over the decision. Among my classmates, we were asking ourselves, “Why don’t we move to an English medium school?” I believe slightly more than twenty percent of us did so.
Your parents did not object? Did they always leave all decisions to you?
My father was quite relaxed about such things.
"Among my classmates, we were asking ourselves, “Why don’t we move to an English medium school?” I believe slightly more than twenty percent of us did so."
You had so much independence at primary six?
Yes, I decided on that myself.
Did you have the foresight that enrolment in Chinese-medium schools was falling and the schools were going to close?
Not at all, we didn’t think so much at such a young age. Oh we had a lot of fun in our primary school.
We completed our PSLE in May and for half a year, we were so free!
We just played, did a lot of fun things, learned crochet and knitting etc. I also remember learning hanyu pinyin 汉语拼音, which was something totally new to us.
"I don’t think I studied a lot, but I loved reading from young."
What was growing up like?
I don’t think I studied a lot, but I loved reading from young.
Because my dad was in the trading business, he entertained a lot and did not come home early.
We had a nanny and she took care of all three of us. She was like a grandmother to us. My mom quit her job at CK Tang partly because my nanny was getting old, so she decided to look after us herself. She also did not interfere much with our lives.
Maybe it was because all of you were well-behaved?
I think I was okay but my siblings could be more challenging for my parents.
Did you play the big sister role?
Hmmmm, I guess I am playing that role now. Hahahahaha. (laugh)
They were quite rebellious growing up but I wasn’t.
Where did you go after SCGS?
NJC (National Junior College). I thought it was a good JC because it was the first JC in Singapore.
I was in the arts stream and did history and geography.
All my guesses about you turned out to be wrong. I assumed you were Chinese-educated and from Hwa Chong Junior College.
My husband was from Hwa Chong JC, not me.
When I was in SCGS, I continued to write in Chinese and also participated actively in outside literary groups in Chinese language. Because of that, I became friends with many Chinese-educated students.
In Chinese? That must be quite rare. SCGS is not known for its Chinese.
Yup. SCGS doesn’t have a good standard in Chinese.
"When I was in SCGS, I continued to write in Chinese and also participated actively in outside literary groups in Chinese language."
Your Chinese must be so good that you didn’t have to study.
It was interesting because I remember being offered the third language elective to learn Japanese.
It was the first year that the third language programme was offered and the programme started with French and Japanese.
I went for the orientation but quit the programme soon after for several reasons.
Since I had just gotten into an English stream school, I thought I should spend more time to better my English. I also felt that I would have a chance to learn the Japanese language in the future. A third silly reason was I had been attending only afternoon sessions in primary school, so I wasn’t too motivated to wake up early to attend the third language classes in the morning. I was such a spoiled and lazy girl!
Why did you pick Japanese?
I get asked that a lot.
I love reading. Growing up, there was a pasar malam (night market) near my house which sold books. Chinese manhua (漫画 or manga) was popular and I became interested in 小叮当 (Doraemon) which I could buy from these stalls.
My grandfather, who was living with us, also regularly bought children manhua like 儿童乐园 and 南洋儿童 for me.
What did all these magazines have to do with Japanese?
Although a lot of the manhua were in Chinese, they originated in Japan.
On top of that, I liked these fancy puffy pencil cases in primary school. To make them puffy, the Japanese manufacturers stuffed them with newspapers, a fact I found out accidentally when one of the pencil cases broke. I was really fascinated with the Japanese characters in the newspapers and thought the cursive hiragana characters were beautiful.
I started learning Japanese just before entering university. I took some basic classes but my Japanese language journey really started in NUS.
I always thought that Japanese Studies in NUS only meant studying the language.
Nope, it is more than that. Apart from the language, I studied Japanese history, literature, business, culture, society and so on.
Do you know that the Department of Japanese Studies stopped teaching Japanese language since 2003? All languages are now taught at the Centre for Language Studies in NUS.
"I have interviewed Japanese who had moved to Singapore in the 70s. Some shared that they felt discrimination due to the locals’ negative image of Japan as a result of their WWII experience."
I was just thinking learning Japanese might have been an awkward choice for some older Singaporeans who still remember the war. Did you face objections?
My family was actually quite open-minded. But I have heard of people whose grandparents were not supportive.
In the course of my research, I have interviewed Japanese who had moved to Singapore in the 70s. Some shared that they felt discrimination due to the locals’ negative image of Japan as a result of their WWII experience.
I remember reading that your first trip to Japan was in 1981.
When I was 15, we went on a family trip to Tokyo and Hokkaido.
It was a fascinating trip. Perhaps it planted the idea that I could go back to learn more about their culture.
How did you meet your husband?
I met Pang Kit when I attended a xinyao 新谣 concert in the Nanyang Siang Pau auditorium.
Xinyao 新谣 refers to a genre of Mandarin songs composed, written, and performed by young Singaporeans. Xinyao means “Singapore songs” or “Singapore ballads”
How old were you then?
I was in JC 2 which means I was 18.
And how old was he?
He was then a polytechnic student and five years older than me.
What was the first thing you noticed about him? Good looking or good voice?
Hahahahaha (laugh), he has big eyes and a sweet smile. He had the flu and did not sing on the day we met. Otherwise, he would have been on stage and we might not have met.
He happened to be standing next to me in the audience and introduced himself. I knew nothing about him before that.
"(Pang Kit) had the flu and did not sing on the day we met. Otherwise, he would have been on stage and we might not have met."
How long did you date before getting married?
We dated for seven years. He started working when I began my undergraduate studies, and he was so kind to offer to fetch me to campus every day.
After my honours year, I was awarded a year-long scholarship to spend a year at the University of Ryukyus in Okinawa.
When I was there, Dr Seah Chee Meow, my department head at NUS, suggested that I pursue my master’s with the department after my return. I agreed so long as I could return to Okinawa to do research related to aging.
We got married when I was doing my master’s.
Where did you live after your marriage?
We knew that I was going overseas to pursue my PhD so we did not buy any property.
We have a good friend Koh Nam Seng 许南盛 who was leaving for Taiwan to further his studies. He and his mom were staying in an apartment in Balestier.
As he was going away, he asked if we could move in with his mom, to keep her company in his absence.
Although we could have stayed in my husband’s family home, we took up Nam Seng’s offer and stayed with his mom for a year. We have remained close to his mum.
You know who is Koh Nam Seng 许南盛 right?
Of course. He was a famous songwriter and xinyao singer. This story is quite amazing.
It is amazing right? (laugh) I don’t remember why we made that decision. These are good memories of our first year of marriage.
Are you glad that your husband did not become a singer?
He was actually headhunted for a singing career in Taiwan. He didn’t want to go because he didn’t think it was right for him to leave his parents.
What does he do now?
He is a businessman and runs a construction-related civil engineering company.
He was Chinese-educated. The policy change in the education system during his time affected him greatly.
I saw the documentary – The Songs We Sang by Eva Tang. Part of it deals with the language issue.
He was in that documentary. He was part of a trio with Liang Wern Fook and Low Swee Chen who sang 细水长流 (Friendship Forever). It was quite a major hit.
He told me all the classes he took at Whampoa Secondary School were taught in Chinese. In JC, suddenly everything was switched to English. Imagine studying economics in English. Even some teachers found the change tough.
He said it was stressful and naturally, he did not do well for his ‘A’ levels.
What was your thinking when you completed your undergraduate studies? To get a job?
I didn’t have to think much because I went to study in Okinawa for a year right after I completed the honors year. When I was there, a professor at the School of Public Health at the University of the Ryukyus encouraged me to pursue a master’s with them.
By then I was already interested in doing research on older people.
The scholarship I received was a special one. I think it does not exist anymore. Each year, the Okinawan prefecture government awarded scholarships to young persons from ASEAN, South Korea and Taiwan. I remember there was one from each ASEAN country, and two each from South Korea and Taiwan.
"He told me all the classes he took at Whampoa Secondary School were taught in Chinese. In JC, suddenly everything was switched to English. Imagine studying economics in English. Even some teachers found the change tough."
And the master’s degree came after that. Was it about ageing in Japan?
I’ve always wanted to study ageing.
My grandfather passed away in my third year in university. He was in a nursing home in Singapore and I visited him regularly.
From those visits, I noticed there were a lot of issues related to ageing although they were not discussed publicly in a young country like Singapore then.
Around the same time, I was getting familiar with the ageing situation in Japan through a course I took on Japanese society. I realised there was a lot we could learn from the Japanese, like how they cope with rising health care cost and care needs.
Did you always know that you wanted to get a PhD?
Towards the end of my master’s programme, the department head in the Japanese Studies department in NUS encouraged me to do a PhD.
Somehow, things just fell into place.
Why did you do your PhD in the United States? Why not Japan?
I had the opportunity to apply to the University of Tokyo.
But my department at that time preferred that I receive my PhD from the US because in the American system, I had to do coursework before I take the QE (Qualifying Examination). I could continue with my PhD research only after passing QE.
It was considered a more comprehensive system and you would learn much more. I ended up completing 20 courses before I took QE. The coursework was very helpful since I was going to return to Singapore to lecture.
Did you want to be a teacher?
I must say things just fell into place. When I was applying to do my master’s, there was only one Japanese sociologist who was able to supervise my thesis. But halfway through my programme, she left the university and my department head told me to take over the course she was teaching.
So for one year, I was fully in charge of teaching a third-year undergraduate Japanese society course with 130 odd students, while still a master’s student. That stint was important in demonstrating to the administrators that I could teach. It also helped me find my passion in teaching.
It was a big thing to do a PhD.
I must thank my department head for believing that I could go through the program. Back then, not many people I knew were in graduate school or talked about it. Most people started working after their undergraduate studies. Moreover, not everyone who started a doctorate program will successfully complete it. Pursuing a doctorate requires a lot of determination, besides passion. Doing a master’s and a PhD are two very different things.
Did your parents say, “A girl should not study so much”?
They didn’t say that. They were probably glad that I had scholarships so they were not financially burdened.
However, my mother would sometimes say, “It would have been good if you were a boy.”
So there was a bias?
The bias could be subconscious, especially among the older generation. But of course my parents love me a lot and supported me in whatever I wanted to do.
Were you done with your master’s when you got married?
No. I was halfway through.
So your husband knew that you were going away to do your PhD?
Yes. He was already working and I kept reminding him that we would be going together. He was very attached to his family.
Was he working for a family business?
No. His career path is quite interesting.
He wanted to study business in the polytechnic but didn’t manage to get into the course. He ended up studying civil engineering, which was not something he liked. There were not that many choices then so he just did it.
He started as an intern in a company in Tuas but ended up working there full time after his graduation.
Eventually, he with the management team bought over the company and he is still there.
He and I are the same — we have never changed company. Hahahaha. (laugh)
"We met when I was only 18, we grew together over the years. Also my parents didn’t have any objections. They like him a lot!"
How does it feel to marry someone who is less educated? It was a big thing then right?
Was it? Anyway, it didn’t matter to me. We met when I was only 18, we grew together over the years. Also my parents didn’t have any objections. They like him a lot!
Did it matter to him?
Obviously not. Otherwise we wouldn’t be married.
The acknowledgment in your first book Generations in Touch says a lot. You mentioned that he followed you wherever your research took you.
I started my PhD at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign in August 1992. The plan was for him to join me in the US and for him to further his studies later. But he was procrastinating a lot.
I was back in Singapore during Christmas till January 1993. When I returned to Illinois, I found out that I was pregnant. That helped to speed up his move to join me.
Did he have to quit his job?
He wanted to quit but the company encouraged him to just go on leave.
For how long?
The whole period of my PhD lor.
So when did he join you eventually?
Finally in May 1993, he joined me.
Unfortunately, I had a miscarriage on the day he arrived in the US.
Oh dear, so sorry to hear that.
Before he came, I was living in a two-bedroom house and my room-mate had occupied the bigger room.
To accommodate my husband, we decided to swap rooms and I must have overexerted myself in the move.
How far along were you pregnant?
It was 20 weeks and I was expecting twins — a girl and a boy.
Oh my god.
It was really devastating.
You know we always say, “When I woke up, I wished it was just a bad dream.”
It was that kind of feeling.
But it wasn’t a dream.
Thank God he arrived in time so I didn’t have to deal with it alone.
You were obviously affected then but now, you seem comfortable talking about it.
I am a positive person and I felt that there must be a reason why it happened.
And to trust God.
But not too long after, you became pregnant again?
Pang Kit had already started taking classes in the community college when his company suggested that he return to Singapore.
He agreed but we found out I was pregnant again. That came as a surprise because the doctor had advised that we wait a year.
Our first son was born in the USA in June 1994. My husband ended up staying until I completed my PhD in 1997.
Tell me about your sons.
My elder son is 31 this year. He loves writing and is a journalist.
My younger son is a fourth-year business school student at NUS. He is turning 25.
Both of them went to St Andrew’s (primary, secondary and JC).
Are you close to them?
Yes, we often go on holidays together. They share many things with us. We are also close to their girlfriends.
My sons and my husband are all Liverpool fans so they have a lot in common. They chat non-stop about football!
On birthdays, we will write to one another so there are always opportunities to talk about our feelings. I thank them for being such caring kids, making my motherhood a smooth one.
Coming back to your career, why did you choose Illinois?
I had read David W. Plath’s book and decided that he was the anthropology professor I wanted to study with.
His book, Long Engagements: Maturity in Modern Japan, played a big role in my decision. He wrote beautifully about the ageing process based on his research in Japan.
You chose the school because of one professor?
Yes and it is very important.
I always tell people, “When you are doing a PhD, don’t just follow a university. It is more important to find the right advisor.”
David was a wonderful advisor who was encouraging and caring. He taught me how to be a good advisor to my students.
I miss him. He passed away in November 2022.
But your field work was in Japan?
Yes, Japan was my only fieldwork site. In the third year of my Phd studies, after my QE, I flew to Japan. I was attached to Waseda University for a year.
Our son was two by then and he and my husband relocated with me.
Is it accurate to say that by then, your spoken Japanese was already very good?
Yes. The time I spent in Okinawa really helped with that.
What language do you think in?
I speak Mandarin with my husband. I try to speak Mandarin with my sons as well but they will usually reply in English.
I realise that I would think in Japanese if I am in Japan. When I was in Hong Kong for a month during one of my earlier sabbaticals, I also started thinking in Cantonese.
I think I can code-switch easily.
Your book Generations in Touch was based on your PhD?
After one year of field research, I spent about four months writing the dissertation.
My research was on intergenerational relationships and how to bring people of different ages together in extrafamilial ways.
The book published in 2001 was basically based on the whole dissertation without much revision.
Singapore is also an ageing society and we share many similarities with Japan. So having observed Japanese society your whole working life, do you think we are in danger of becoming like them?
Every country is going to be in danger.
We are becoming a super aged society. It is the result of long periods of low fertility rates and high life expectancy.
In 2023, the total resident fertility rate in Singapore was very low, only at 0.97.
In terms of making more babies, do you have any views on that?
It is important that we have strong families so that children growing up will look to their parents and say, “I want to be a parent too”.
But are we doing enough? That’s the important question to answer.
So it is not about incentives?
Yes and no.
I believe my husband and I have been good role models to our children for them to want to be parents themselves. But at the same time, the right incentives to support the journey of their childrearing would be helpful.
"I believe my husband and I have been good role models to our children for them to want to be parents themselves."
You sit on several advisory committees. What is the one thing you always tell them?
My main area of concern is strengthening intergenerational connections to build an inclusive society. Faced with such a great demographic transition, it is important for us to adopt an intergenerational lens. By that I mean that we should cultivate the sensitivities involved in engaging with different generations, and “mainstream” intergenerational approaches in all kinds of settings.
More thought should also be given to how spaces could be configured into what I call “intergenerational contact zones”.
Can you explain in lay person language what you mean?
If you look at the issues related to ageing, ageism is one. Social isolation is another; it highlights the importance of intergenerational connection. Giving the young opportunities to link with the older generation helps develop empathy and social skills.
It is not helping that we are living in an age-segregated society, with institutions built for mono-generations. The family as an institution is an exception, but increasingly, more older people are living alone or only with spouses.
The intergenerational lens will help us to always consider integrating, rather than segregating the generations as we set up another childcare centre, school, nursing home, community park and so on.
We also need those working in the built environment space to think in terms of how to create and re-create spaces that will invite more opportunities for intergenerational contact, how we should constantly think of expanding the intergenerational contact zones.
Can you cite an example of a co-location of spaces for seniors and children?
Kotoen in Tokyo, where I did my PhD research, is an excellent example of an age-integrated facility. It has a childcare centre with an old folks’ home and a nursing home. I studied how the children and the old folks interacted with one another and observed how they built relationships and how such an arrangement was beneficial for the young and the old.
Will we be able to do better in integrating?
We are already making some headway. I am optimistic that if any country can do it better, Singapore will certainly be among them.
Has any of these ideas been implemented in Singapore?
There have been two such age-integrated centres in Singapore. The first one started in West Coast in 1986, called Ayer Rajah Day Care Centre. It offers child care and elder care services. The second one is the Tampines 3-in-1 Centre by PCF (PAP Community Foundation) established in 1995.
When I came back in 1997, I was actively talking to the then Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports about what I discovered in my research. They were receptive and formed a taskforce on intergenerational bonding and grandparenting ( 2002 to 2006) which I was a part of.
We initiated quite a few interesting programs to raise awareness and promote intergenerational bonding during the period. The efforts continued with the Council for Third Age (C3A) after that. In 2010, C3A organized an international conference with NUS, bringing together scholars, practitioners and policy makers to share intergenerational policies, research and programmes.That was a milestone in examining intergenerational solidarity issues comprehensively in family, work and community.
"While we talk a lot about life expectancy, what is more important is health expectancy. The gap between them is 10 years apart. So how do we narrow this gap?"
Why do you say that?
Last year I initiated a roundtable under Gerontological Society and Fei Yue Community Services, gathering about 30 participants to share their intergenerational work.
People were encouraged to learn that there are different intergenerational initiatives already going on.
For example, St Joseph’s Home added an infant and childcare centre co-sited with the nursing home in 2017 and has since improved its intergenerational programs.
Since 2014, NTUC Health and NTUC First Campus have partnered each other to organise intergenerational programmes.
Many Active Ageing Centres (AAC) also organize ad hoc or periodic intergenerational programs fostering better community bonding.
In August last year, CNA did a heart-warming 4-part series called “It takes a village” on bonding the old and young in the St John’s-St Margaret’s Church Village on Dover Road. I hope this has helped promote interest too.
If you look at the policies introduced by the Singapore Government, for example, the 2015 and 2023 Refreshed Action Plans for Successful Aging, there are increasing efforts to promote intergenerational bonding, such as more co-locations of aged and child care services under “Kampong for all ages” in the 2015 version and the emphasis on forging intergenerational bonds in community and family under the theme of ‘Connection’ in the 2023 version.
I hope that the government can provide more support to entities who want to explore or do more intergenerational work. There are funding needs in terms of training and education, spatial re-configuration and so on. Obviously, changing mindsets and increasing awareness on the significance of linking generations are important too.
While we talk a lot about life expectancy, what is more important is health expectancy. The gap between them is 10 years apart. So how do we narrow this gap?
I think Japan is a good model of what works and what doesn’t.
So your research goes beyond ageing?
My research is largely ageing-related. Besides the focus on intergenerational approaches, I have worked on active aging, caregiving, fostering an age-friendly community and more recently on senior housing, including assisted living. My research scope expands as I discover new needs in aging.
Then there is also a separate research area on understanding Japan in Southeast Asia. I have done research on Japanese women working in Singapore, the movement of the Japanese to Southeast Asia and Australia, and Japanese cosplay in Singapore.
How would your students describe you?
Hmmm, sometimes my students say I am like a mother to them. They tell me I’m caring and nurturing.
You mentioned God quite a fair bit. When did you become a Christian?
Although my mom is not a Christian, she used to go to Novena Church when I was in secondary school. I tagged along with her and that was when I learned to pray.
My husband, who became a Christian in secondary school, was very patient and just followed me when I was exploring Catholic churches.
He was very gentle and gave me time to explore on my own.
I began to attend Protestant church service in Okinawa and also went to church regularly in the USA. My husband and I were only baptised in 1999, after we returned to Singapore.
You went through a very hard time in the USA when you lost the babies. Did faith play a big role in helping you cope?
It was very important in helping me cope with grief, as I believe that God has his plans for me. We received much help from our church too. Our pastor and his wife spent time to console us and also held a burial service for the twins.
"I identify a lot with Michelle Yeoh’s character in the film Everything Everywhere All at Once."
How do you find time to do so many things?
I am someone who can multitask. (laugh)
When I was young, I would watch tv, try to study, and crochet, all at the same time.
At the end of primary six, we asked our form teacher, “Before we leave school, why don’t you comment on each one of us?”
When it came to me, she remarked, “I heard you are a superwoman.” (laugh)
That’s probably why I identify a lot with Michelle Yeoh’s character in the film Everything Everywhere All at Once.
When my brother was hospitalised recently, I became occupied helping his wife to look after his matters. I also spent much time looking after my dad before he passed on last January.
That prompted my son to ask, “Mommy, you are doing so many things, why are you always the one in charge?”.
Ya, why always you?
I told him that maybe I am the eldest child, so I feel the responsibility.
I guess it is also because I can somehow cope with the tasks.
Like they always say in Chinese, 能者多劳 (literal translation — those who can will end up doing more).
Do you attach any significance to the fact that you were born in 1965?
I wish I was born on National Day! (laugh) It will be so much more significant!
As someone who travels widely and has lived abroad for extended periods of time, I have grown to love my country more. Singapore is unique.
"As someone who travels widely and has lived abroad for extended periods of time, I have grown to love my country more. Singapore is unique."
Unique in what sense?
Our growth is phenomenal for such a small country without natural resources. It is a comfortable place to live, convenient and offering diversity in food and culture.
Of course I think we can do certain things better, for instance in the areas of community building and a sense of belonging.
Is that why you stay engaged?
Yes, and on many levels.
I like to contribute in ways I can.
But I think I am probably too gentle to become a politician.
You have studied ageing almost your entire working life. Now that you are entering your 60s, are you ready for it?
I started young and when I interviewed people, they were usually my grandparents’ age. Now I am that age.
In our hearts, we are ageless. I believe that if we continue to learn, we will always be able to keep up with the times, and therefore feel as young as we want.
But at the same time, we have to recognise our own physical limits, so I have come to feel that we need to learn to age gracefully, instead of rejecting growing old.
Can you see yourself retiring?
I would like to retire in five years. (laugh)
Does retirement really mean retirement for you?
I don’t think we need to plan everything so meticulously because you don’t know what life will bring you.
Officially, I will retire from the university when I reach 65 but I can still be involved in other ways.
"Officially, I will retire from the university when I reach 65 but I can still be involved in other ways."
What would you do when you retire?
I haven’t thought about it, I will have five years to plan.
How would you like to be remembered?
Rather than remembering me, I hope others will carry on after me in continuing to promote awareness and action to deepen and broaden intergenerational connections in Singapore and beyond.
That will be more important.
What is your ikigai, the Japanese concept referring to the passion that gives value and joy to life?
I find joy in many things, in research and writing, in connecting with family and friends, in helping others and so on. After retirement, there will still be plenty of reasons for me to wake up in the morning.