What do you remember of your childhood?

The thing I remember when I was very young was 鸡腿 (chicken drumstick).

Whenever there were family gatherings, my mom would give me one 鸡腿 and ask me to go to the corridor outside our flat and eat, so that I wouldn’t bother her.

Was it because you were asking a lot of questions?

No, because I was the youngest and I think I was always bothering others.

She used to cook for her mom and many relatives from her side of the family would come over to our place.

I was the youngest even among the cousins.

Were you also the most talkative?

No, I was the only girl. All my cousins are boys and I don’t have any female cousins.

What else do you remember?

I remember my school bag was super heavy in primary school. And I had to take a bus to school.

I don’t know why I had to bring everything to school.

Back then, there was no such thing as a locker.

Where did you grow up?

In a HDB flat in Bukit Ho Swee.

And how long were you there?

From the day I was born until end of 1999 although I was in the UK for a few years.

In 2000, I moved to Ang Mo Kio.

Can you tell me about your parents?

My father was a photographer who became a jade distributor.

What kind of photography did he do?

I don’t know. I was too young to know.

But you know that he was a photographer?

Yes. I remember I was taught this word, ‘photographer’ when I was very young.

In primary school oral exams, they always asked this question, “What is your father’s occupation?”

So I had to remember the word ‘photographer’.

Does it mean that when you were young, you had a lot of pictures taken of you?

I guess there were a lot of pictures of the whole family.

And what about your mom, what did she do?

As far as I can remember, she was always a housewife.

I think she might have worked when she was very young but she stopped working after getting married.

Are your parents still around?

No, they have passed away. My dad passed away in 2008. My mom passed away in 2022.

Were your parents born in Singapore?

My mom was not. She came from China when she was very young.

I’m really not sure about my dad. At that time, he travelled a lot between China and Southeast Asia. We have relatives in (KL) Kuala Lumper, in Phuket, in Batam.

But I was told that he went back to China to continue his secondary school education.

As to where he was born, I don’t know. Probably in China.

When you say he travelled between China and Southeast Asia, was that all for work?

Not entirely. Some were for family-related reasons.

His family was always moving?

Yes. Because he had relatives in different places.

And then he finally came back to settle in Singapore?

Yes. Because of the Second World War, they left China. My grandma, my dad’s mom, went to Hong Kong with dad’s elder brother.

Dad went to KL, then came to Singapore alone.

What about your grandfather?

My grandfather passed away in China when I was very young.

You never met him?

No. My dad didn’t want us to go to his funeral. He didn’t even want to tell us.

Was it because they had a lousy relationship?

According to my mom, she said my dad was worried that we would all get scared.

Scared of having to travel to China?

No. Of death. My father shielded us from the death of all our relatives.

Until you were quite old?

When I was in JC (junior college), my grandmother passed away in Hong Kong and my parents went to the funeral.

My dad had started his jade business so he traveled to Hong Kong very frequently. The factory was there. So when my parents went to Hong Kong, I assumed that it was for business.

I only found out the real reason after they returned from the trip.

My mom just said, “Oh, your grandma passed away.”

At the same time, she mentioned that my grandfather passed away very long ago.

Maybe it was their way of ‘protecting’ us.

How many siblings do you have?

I have two older brothers.

Tell me about your two older brothers.

My eldest brother is 10 years older than me. He’s an architect and has his own practice. He’s still working.

My second brother was always in the banking industry, doing investment and trading. He’s eight years older than me. He is retired.

Do they live in Singapore?

They’re both in Singapore but at one stage, my second brother was in the UK for studies. He was there for around 10 years.

He also worked in Hong Kong.

Do you remember your primary school?

I was in Nan Hua Primary School in Bencoleen Street.

Who picked the school?

My father. He wanted a school linked to a clan.

And your brothers?

They were all from ACS (Anglo-Chinese School).

My father was a very traditional man who believed that boys needed to work so they better learn English.

So they were sent to a ‘better’ school.

So what did he think girls need?

To him, girls did not need to work, but they must know Chinese tradition. So I was sent to a Chinese school.

You sound like you were not happy with the decision.

No, because I didn’t really like that school.

But when you were young, how would you know what other schools were like?

I wouldn’t know. It was just that I did not feel very comfortable at Nan Hua. There were too many cliques.

So when it came to secondary school, I was very happy because I could choose the school myself.

My father’s only requirement was that it had to be an all- girls’ school.

I chose Nan Chiau Girls High School because there was a direct bus from home.

The school went co-educational in 1984 and was renamed Nan Chiau High School.

Were you closer to your mom or dad?

I think it’s very typical of Chinese parents that the father is not expressive. Whereas the mom, the housewife, would just talk to you the whole day.

So I ended up closer to my mom.

So she was the one who made sure you did your homework?

Actually, no. My parents didn’t bother me much.

Mom was okay as long as I tried my best.

And after secondary school?

After secondary school, I looked for a JC nearest my house with a direct bus from home. I ended up in St Andrew’s JC.

Were you in any ECA?

I was in the arts society. For sports, I picked tennis. But for two years, I learnt nothing.

Despite being in a club?

I’m by nature not very good with physical activities. My coordination between my brain and my hands and legs is not there.

My brain always runs faster than my body, so I fall frequently.

You did okay for the A-Levels?

Yeah, I passed.

Did you go to university?

I didn’t go to university in Singapore.

I was offered places in NUS and Singapore Polytechnic, but I was no longer interested in the courses that were offered to me.

What did you want to do?

I wanted to do finance or anything to do with business. I found that to be very interesting.

So I went to England.

My first choice was accounting. But when I spoke to some seniors, I learned that the passing rate for accounting was very low.

How did you end up in London?

Because at that time, my second brother was working there.

I went there many months before school started.

I visited different schools in London, Sheffield, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Every school looked the same but I realised that I could not survive outside London.

In the end I chose University of East London and graduated with an honours degree in applied economics.

You chose London because your brother was there?

No, the other places were just too boring.

When I was in Sheffield, I hung out with the daughter of my dad’s business partner.

I remember being chased out of shops because they had to close at 5pm.

The whole high street was empty and silent.

Oh my God, I nearly fainted.

Did you enjoy London?

Yes, London was a lot more fun. A lot more places to go, a lot of parks, and there are many museums and galleries.

Did you live with your brother?

When I first went, yeah. But he moved to Hong Kong midway through my university studies.

By then you had made friends?

Yes, yes.

Why did you study business? Was it because of your father?

No. I just got interested in why a product sold well here; or why the price of the same product was different in different places.

So maybe you were interested in marketing?

I don’t know.

I was always curious to know things like how to calculate the cost, how to make money.

When did this interest start?

In JC. I had totally lost interest in science. I really didn’t like physics. I was also not interested in Shakespeare.

You took economics?

Yes, a lot of sentences in economics textbooks started with the same paragraph, ‘Assuming everything being constant’.

I kept arguing with the lecturer. I said, “Assuming everything being constant, I can be a superman.”

What other subjects did you take?

Accounting. I even had tuition.

The tuition teacher was such a good teacher. I went from knowing nothing about accounting to LCCI to higher accounting.

Who paid for your overseas studies?

My dad.

He was successful as a jade merchant?

I guess so. At that time, there weren’t many players.

I think it was also because we had relatives in Myanmar and a lot of the jade came from there.

So would you say that you grew up comfortable?

Yes, and I wish my whole life is like that.

Do you mean your life subsequently was not comfortable?

So far, so good.

What happened after London?

I came back and worked. My father wanted me to come back.

Even though you have graduated, you still didn’t have the freedom to choose what you want to do?

Not exactly. I won’t say that it is a question of freedom.

First of all, finding a job in London was very difficult.

I did some unofficial jobs, which meant working illegally.

If I wanted to continue doing that, it was fine. But it was not legal.

A company was interested in hiring me but it could not get me a work visa.

So I came back at the end of 1988.

Were you always known as Betty?

No. I gave myself the name when I came back to Singapore. I wanted something easy to remember.

What was your first job?

I was a features writer for a publishing house with many magazine titles, including trade magazines for the seafood association and furniture association.

Whichever projects my company won, I had to do the interviews.

Was it something that you wanted?

It was interesting. It allowed me to learn about so many industries.

There were a lot of arty-farty people in my company.

I stayed for one or two years. I found it very messy.

Where did you move to?

I went to work at Diversitec, a distributor for Apple computers.

Were you a Mac user then?

No. It was brand new so I had to go for classes to learn how to use the products. Then I had to learn how to sell them. I was in sales.

So you were selling something that you were not familiar with?

I totally didn’t know the products. I think the first year was tough. At that time, we had to do cold calls.

But the company organised many mini showcases for customers to come and look at the latest models.

The circumstances and environment were comfortable and allowed me to learn how to communicate with customers and to introduce products.

How long did you stay with this company?

Three years plus, maybe four years.

You moved again?

My ex-boss started a company and wanted to focus on high-end desktop solutions.

I think I was there for about a year.

My feeling was that unless a company had plans to expand to other countries, the Singapore market was too small for us to achieve the sales target.

Then I joined a company called Fullmark, which had just taken over another computer distributor called Tricom.

How was that experience?

I think the first few months were quite bad because I was treated more like a competitor because I had come from their competitor.

Things only improved after the sales manager left and my ex-boss joined.

I stayed for a few years before joining another company that distributed Acer computers.

Then the internet industry started. So I joined Pacific Internet.

What did you do at Pacific Internet?

The whole internet market was booming. It was very fun.

I was in marketing, which was different from sales.

Before I joined Pacific Internet, I had already applied to a part-time master’s marketing course in NUS.

So you can say that you were there when the internet kicked off?

Yes, and I think I was there for eight years. It was the longest time I have stayed in a job.

Did you rise through the ranks?

I remember I told the director, “I have just started studying marketing, so I don’t know much about marketing. I’m willing to start from the lowest level.”

And when you left, you were …?

When I left the company after eight years, I was a senior manager for tele-sales.

I had stints in consumer marketing and corporate marketing before the MD asked me to take over the tele-sales team.

Tele-sales is very interesting. It is not entirely affected by marketing.

Can you explain?

The success of any promotion campaign that the marketing people came up with was very much dependent on the tele-sales team.

How the tele-sales team translate the promotion into sales was crucial. What they wanted to say or didn’t want to say. How they serviced the customer.

A promotion could flop completely because tele-sales refused to push it.

So your job was to train the tele-sales people?

To lead them. There was a tele-sales manager who had been there for very, very long. And for some reason she wasn’t happy after 10 years.

The tele-sales team was so reliant on her, and the MD was worried that the tele-sales people would leave.

So they needed to find somebody whom the tele-sales people were familiar with.

Which was you.

Yes, to calm them down. Because I was from marketing, I had worked with many of the tele-sales folks.

And I knew what kind of customers they were dealing with — mainly with SMEs, or individuals.

They knew you and they welcomed you?

Yes. I managed to get them to calm down.

So how long did you stay in this tele-sales role?

About 2, 3 years.

Then came Singtel. My ex-colleague went over, and they called me.

What were you doing at Singtel?

Same, marketing.

I only stayed there for eight months because my father was near his last stage in life and I wanted to spend time with him.

He was not well?

He had a stroke. He was stable for five years after the stroke. But five years after surviving the stroke, the deterioration was very fast. So I stopped working.

To look after him?

Not look after, but accompany him. He didn’t want to go to hospital.

Hold on, I need to sidetrack for a bit. Why did you move to Ang Mo Kio?

My parents had moved to the Ang Mo Kio area.

Oh, so you didn’t live with them?

No. I was staying on my own in our old flat in Bukit Ho Swee.

I’m confused here. Did your parents buy another flat?

When I was studying in London, my parents moved in with my brother and his family.

My father loved children, so they moved to be close to the grandchildren.

Remember what I told you earlier that he was very traditional?

I see. They lived in Ang Mo Kio too?

Nearby. Thomson Road, then Bishan, now Lorong Chuan.

So you moved to Ang Mo Kio to be closer to the family?

Correct.

That was what my mom suggested. It didn’t really matter to me.

I mean, Singapore is so small. How far can it be?

So what did you do when you were with your dad?

I visited my parents and had lunch or dinner with them.

You didn’t want to move in with them?

No, I’m really not very used to staying with people.

I’ve been staying on my own all these years.

So when you came back from London, you stayed in the family flat in Bukit Ho Swee?

Yes. My parents didn’t sell it, so I stayed there alone.

By the time I was 35 years old, I could buy my own HDB flat. At that time, I could not buy a 4-room flat, but my mom wanted me to buy a 4-room flat.

So we sold the Bukit Ho Swee flat and I bought the Ang Mo Kio flat with my parents.

But they never stayed with you?

No, never. My father had never been to the flat.

I’m assuming you’re not married?

No. I don’t have much interest in getting married.

I had a relationship when I was maybe 30. When it ended, it was frankly speaking, not painful.

It was nothing dramatic like what people always say about break ups.

How long was the relationship?

2-3 years.

It was not painful because?

For me, it was out of sight, out of mind.

He had left Singapore for further studies.

He was supposed to come back one year later but he decided to continue with his studies. I knew I would have to forget this person.

I think at that time, I had just joined Pacific Internet, and I had picked up diving.

Suddenly a whole new world opened up. Underwater is so interesting.

You never felt like you needed to settle down?

No.

At 60, do you have any regrets? Like, are you lonely?

I would say that 50% of the time, I’m happy by myself.

Then 20% of the time is occupied by friends, dinners or going out.

And then another 20% of my time is spent on work.

Maybe I’m left with 10% of the time to feel lonely. So there aren’t many occasions when I would feel lonely.

I guess maybe when I am sick, but I’m seldom sick.

You look after yourself?

Yes. So I don’t really feel lonely.

Are you close to your siblings?

If you compare with other families, we are not close.

You see one another once a year?

No, in the past we saw one another three times a year.

Chinese New Year, mom’s birthday, then grandma’s birthday.

So after grandma passed away, twice a year.

After my mom passed away, we didn’t see one another for a few months.

Then my elder brother started asking me to join them for dinner.

And then after a while, we started to ask my second brother to join us.

So now we see one another once a week for dinner.

As you get older, do you feel the need to spend time with family?

I think my second brother is not extremely well, so it would be good to go out with him and to check on him.

I’m sure you remember your last full-time gig?

It was a two-year contract supporting a training unit in a new hospital.

Why did you leave?

The politics was just stupid.

You know, for example, the manager would say to me in front of the director, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, any problem you come and ask me, I’ll always be here.”

But when I asked her for help, she told me I had to handle the problem myself.

When did you ‘retire’?

In 2023. I quit once my contract was over. I was really unhappy at my last job.

You just stayed at home?

I went to London and stayed there for a while.

A friend from university days, who is in the property business, told me I could stay in one of the empty units under her care. It so happened that her tenant had moved out.

How long were you there?

At least a month.

My friend was from Hong Kong but she got married and settled down in the UK.

We stayed in touch all these years.

Did you ‘retire’ because you had enough of working?

I think instead of working, I wanted to live my life.

Did you spend the month in London thinking about what’s next?

No. My mind was blank.

This was 2023?

Yeah. Winter 2023. I was 58.

Did something happen apart from being tired of work?

I was thinking that while I was still mobile, I should visit my old friends.

It could be our last meeting before we die, right?

I mean we are so far away from one another, who knows right?

On that same trip, I visited another classmate from Nan Chiau, who lives in London too.

You came back after a month?

Correct. I had enough of eating instant noodles.

The food was really bad in London.

And expensive?

Yeah. But I was willing to pay.

After one month, I just came back.

I mean I gave myself one month or two months to enjoy winter, which I didn’t really like when I was a student.

And then what?

I bummed around.

Every day, I’d go to Bishan Park and walk around. I’d join the aunties in their exercise group.

Then I realised that because I was so free in the day, I was no longer tired. I had to force myself to sleep at 10 or 11pm.

But then I would wake up at 3am, because I have had enough rest.

I felt so fresh at 3am, now what should I do?

So I started cleaning the house, washing my clothes.

That was when you felt a need to change your lifestyle again?

In a way.

A friend suggested, “Why don’t you try find a job at a petrol kiosk? They always need cashiers.”

So I went for a meeting with the manager at a station which is just a few minutes’ walk from my place.

I was thinking, “Work downstairs, that would be perfect.”

But you didn’t end up there?

The manager said that because I’d never worked as a cashier, I won’t know how to handle the machine.

I was also told that the Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8 station near my place is a very big station and most of the customers are Grab drivers who are always in a hurry. And if I cannot manage them efficiently, they can be very nasty.

He suggested that I try the station in Windsor Park Road, where 80% of the customers are residents around there and they are nicer. They are mostly retirees who live nearby.

How long have you been a part-time cashier?

I’ve been there for one year.

I want to ask about religion. Did you start going to church in the later half of your life?

I have been attending service regularly since I came back from London. A classmate took me to a church.

You are attending religious classes now?

Yes, and I think I was there for eight years. It was the longest time I have stayed in a job.

And the reason you’re doing this?

More than ten years ago, I decided that I want to serve in a ministry at Wesley Methodist Church, so I started with social outreach.

Then I changed to prison fellowship. For a few years, I went in and out of prison, doing English to Chinese translations for the pastors.

Then I joined Praise Special Community, which is for people with special needs.

At some point, I decided that I wanted to teach.

Is teaching difficult?

To me, it’s difficult because my relationship with God has always been very personal.

I have never really shared my experience.

That was why I decided to join the PUP course so that I can be a better teacher.

At 60, what is your biggest fear or worry?

I don’t know when I will die. It’s something that I think about a lot and want to plan for.

I’m no longer able to clean my house by myself. I find it very tiring.

I only use one toilet, my sitting room, the kitchen and the bedroom, so why am I cleaning areas that I don’t even use?

The two other rooms have started to collect dust, and I have to hire a part-time helper to help me clean.

I may need to find a smaller place that I can manage.

I also wonder if I should continue as a part-time cashier at the petrol kiosk.

The customers come non-stop and frankly speaking, 9 out of 10 customers are very nice. I really enjoy chit-chatting with them.

So the eight hours pass by very fast.

The problem is I have to stand for eight hours, so my legs are in pain.

The doctor and my eldest brother have asked me to change jobs.

Can I say that you have no financial worries?

I won’t be rich but I should be okay.

Now that you’re semi-retired, you should have a lot of time to spend with your friends right?

I don’t have that many friends.

I’m very ‘stupid’ when it comes to relationships.

I mean there were people who have expressed a liking for me but it took me a while to realise that. Very often, I totally misunderstood them.

There was a man who asked me, “Shall we be intimate friends?”, I said “Yeah, sure” without really understanding what he meant.

He kept asking if I could meet on Sunday, and I told him, “I have to be in church.”

I didn’t understand his intentions at first. Then I found out that he was married and I told him, “You know I’m a Christian, this is not right.”

You have been aware that your birthday is the same as Singapore since you were in primary school?

Yes, how could I not?

Every year, I had to be on stage doing something special.

You know, I had to sing a song, and then they made me learn to play the harmonica. And then I had to dance.

Sometimes, I was even asked to perform at other schools.

I was always thinking, “Why do I have to stay back and practise when all my classmates can go home?”

I was quite irritated.

Does sharing the same birthday as Singapore have any special meaning for you?

I do not think there is any significance in sharing the same birthday as Singapore. It’s just that the day is a public holiday and everybody is free.

So my birthday is the only birthday that my family celebrate regularly because everybody is not working that day.